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85-008 First Year Windy Pine tape transcription

Mary:  This was a tape of Murray Snively who was our guide the very first year and Gery Blatz who was on two of the canoe trips the first year and myself with reminiscences of Windy Pine.  This was recorded at 267 Rosedale Heights, February 1985.

Mary:  Well I was going to start by asking … I guess ladies first … um … Gery, how you first came to come to Windy Pine?

Gery:  I don’t really know.  I know that it was through my father’s friendship with you [yes] and um, I just all of a sudden was confronted with ‘would you like to go on a canoe trip’.  And of course, my answer was yes and not having really very much of an idea what I had in store because I couldn’t visualize a camp that was just canoe trips and not a camp.  But that was how it came about, I don’t actually remember.  I remember being delivered at your house … was it at Russell Hill, Doug ??? … [Warren]… Warren Road and uh, I can remember that very well.  My mother dropped me off [that’s right] and you drove us out I think.  That must have been the first trip.

Mary:  Well, we got out a little folder that first year … did you ever see it?

Gery:  I think I did.

Mary:  It was mimeographed down in the basement of the 100 St. George, the Psychology Department.  It was a terrible looking thing, it’s in the archives at Trent.  I don’t think I have a copy.  And your father got hold of it and he came in to tea one day and he said, ‘Now I’m going to send Gery on one of your canoe trips.’  I was scared to death because he was my boss, you know, and the great professor, and I was just an assistant.  But then, was there any dispute?

Gery:  No, oh no.  Because I had been, I had been at ??? for several years so I knew what camp life was all about and I probably … I can’t really recall what my actual emotions were but, um, I know I was looking forward to it.  I mean there was certainly nothing … no drawbacks as far as I could see.

Mary:  Now let’s ask you, Murray.

Murray:  I was asked by Joe … I mean Dugald Morrison … we called him Joe.  And because he couldn’t go because he was going down to his uncle’s farm and farm labour during the war was very hard to come by so Joe went down there and he asked me if I would and I said yes.  And so I guess I then met … either you or Flora, I can’t remember … uh, we drove up to the, um … and stayed one night in the, uh, in the tent, the two of us, and you were there and that was the first I’d met you or you’d met me and it was signed, sealed and delivered at that point, I guess.  I don’t remember exactly, uh, but it certainly … it was my first job, I know, other than taking food for the Hudson Bay Company up in Temagami across portages.  I don’t know exactly how I got into that one either except that I had nothing to do and the family were up there and I got a little bored so I went and worked with the Indians up in Bear Island.

Mary:  Now, you came up first with Dugald?

Murray:  Yes

Mary:  That was before we had the canoe trips.

Murray:  Yes, oh yes.  That was early ….

Mary:  …. to see the place.

Murray:  To see the place and to, uh, I guess see you because I don’t remember ever … I know we borrowed my father’s car and we drove up.  I know gasoline was very …. was rationed at the time …

Mary:  It was very cheap.

Murray:  It was very cheap and he had a little convertible and Dugald and I thought that would be a nice way to go up so he relented and lent us… let us have his car.

Mary:  And when you were up with him, did you go out paddling or on any trip or ..?

Murray:  No, no, we just uh, we did go out and we explored Ox Narrows and up into St. Nora’s but, uh …

Gery:  By canoe?

Murray:  By canoe, yeah.  But we didn’t have much time because it seems to me we had to go up and meet his girlfriend up in the park who was, uh, Joan Barkley, who was down at Rock Lake.

Mary:  Dugald’s girlfriend?

Murray:  Dugald’s girlfriend, yes.  So we didn’t have too much time to go paddling.

Mary:  But then, before Dugald went overseas, he had a very serious girlfriend called Ann somebody.

Murray:  Yes, and ….

Mary:  Because … well Clara talked about it … but also when I was going through letters, there were a lot of letters between them in Flora’s … I don’t know how they got there but they did.  Oh well, that’s a sideline.

Gery:  I didn’t know that he had ever been up there.

Mary:  Who?

Gery:  Dugald.

Mary:  Oh yes, he was … and he did go with somebody on a canoe trip.  Not that year, must have been another year.

Murray:  Probably the year before.  Could have been the year before because I think that year … no, no, it would have been … it might have been the next year.

Mary:  It must have been because that was the first year we were there.  [Yeah]

Gery:  What year was that, Mary?

Mary:  ‘41

Murray:  Yep, the summer of ’41 and I was in Grade … between Grade 12 and 13.  Yeah, and then they went … Dugald went into the Airforce right at … uh, in June ’42 so … but he might have, you know, gone on a canoe trip uh… that summer, maybe before he went in the Airforce.

Mary:  Yeah, well they went up to Algonquin Park by canoe.

Murray:  Oh did they?

Mary:  Yes, and maybe his girlfriend, Joan Barkley was still up there, eh?  [Could be].  Anyway, they went awfully fast and came back very quickly.  So when you got there, what were your first impressions?

Gery:  Oh I can remember the garage where cars were parked which just stuck right out in the middle of the woods.  It seemed … I don’t know why, I can still visualize it with the … with cars and then having to either walk in or we paddled … we paddled in, didn’t we sometimes?  At Ox Narrows, did we paddle in?

Mary:  Before the garage.  The garage wasn’t up ‘til about two or three years later.

Gery:  Oh, it was later, was it?  [Yeah]

Murray:  I don’t remember any garage.  I just remember going to Mr. Penrose’s …

Gery:  Penrose!  That’s right.

Murray: ….and uh, we got the canoes there and came in.

Gery:  Didn’t we sometimes go in by outboard motor.  Didn’t he take us, come back and forth, sometimes?

Mary:  Yes.  He had a 1 ½ horsepower outboard.

Murray:  Right.  But I remember going down and paddling three canoes down altogether, just to get um, so that you could all come back when you came up by car in various, uh … because they were coming from different directions.  Some of them were coming from down … I think, uh, Helen Large had a cottage up on Hollow Lake and I know she was coming from that direction and, you know, different … so we had to have various collections of canoes.

Gery:  And you used to meet us sometimes by bus … is it Carnarvon?  Did the bus come to Carnarvon?

Mary:  That’s right.

Murray:  Carnarvon, that’s right, yep.

Gery:  ‘Cause I remember waiting for the bus to go home and I can remember you picking us up at the bus, I think, when we came up by bus.

Mary:  And do you remember the early bus?

Gery:  Yes, well I have a picture of it.  I think that’s probably why I remember the long trip.

Mary:  That took chicken and stopped at every …

Gery:  Every little place ….

Mary:  Every lane practically.  Took all day to get there.

Gery:  When we came in … and the tents … I can remember the tents very well.  And I can remember you and Flora in your tent with the grand floor ……[tape fades badly here]   I don’t know whether we had floors in our tents or not.  I guess not … but I can remember ….

Murray:  I think the one I was in had a floor.

Gery:  Maybe.  I can remember … we never, ever … I think where it was we were not allowed …but we never, ever saw your tent.  It was way off, around a corner.

Mary:  Things were decent in those days.  So what now.

Gery:  Well, we’re there, and there was a meal prepared as I remember and we didn’t have to do anything that first night I think in the way of …. um, the meal was already done, we didn’t have anything to do with it.  We just ate it and enjoyed it as I remember.  And I can remember the planning sessions and Flora with her Mr. Eaton and Mr. Dunford and all these people that I thought were very close friends of hers because she referred to them as Mr. Eaton and Dunford and Mr. Simpson and Mr. Loblaw and all these people …. that really impressed me and I can still remember Mr. Dunford in particular, he was the um, …

Murray:  He was the pudding man.

Gery:  Pudding man and the drinks.  Grape drink.

Murray:  Yes, yes, and Beardmore.

Gery:  Beardmore, that’s right.

Murray:  Beardmore was uh, there was a lot of dehydrated vegetables that came from Beardmore’s.

Gery:  I had never heard of dehydrated things before.

Mary:  Neither had we.  They’d just come on the market because of the war.  They were making them … shipping them overseas, right?

Murray:  I guess so.  It certainly uh … I found that those canoe trips … I’d been on, you know, various canoe trips and so on with my father and uh … but I’d never seen anything like … you know, we took a side of bacon and some flour and a few things.  But these canoe trips were so well organized that what impressed me more than anything else was that nobody, other than me, had to double over any portage and nobody carried over 35 pounds.  And to me, this was … when you saw what some of the other camps were doing and the loads that some of those children were carrying … I think it was just criminal.  And they still carry them… uh, they’re still taking … I always remember one of your, one of your things was you never carry water in the land of water. 

Mary:  We did with those dehydrated things though because we had to carry them in water.

Murray:  Yes, over the top of the … the odd time on a portage, we’d come and somebody would have a little pail.  I remember having cooked … at least not cooked but, uh …. soaking carrots under my … in a pot under my seat.

Gery:  And I can remember the three little halizone tablets that we had to put in the drinking water and that had to sit for 15 minutes.  I can remember being very, very thirsty once and, uh, having to wait and there was no way we could drink it until it had been purified.

Mary:  Now who were on the first trip?

Gery:  I wasn’t.

Mary:  You were on the first trip.

Gery:  Not the very first one, no, because they were all older.  Older ladies, like you know, 19, 20, 21 years old.

Murray:  The last trip was older too [was it?] … yeah, but there was a Harkness ….

Gery:  I can’t remember who was on …. Jean?  Jane.  Jane was on a trip that I was on.  Was that the first trip?

Murray:  Yes, well she was … uh, I think it was but maybe it was the second.  We went up to Kennisis because I can remember going out in a canoe and taking her out in the canoe and her singing back to the campsite the Indian Love Call because she had a beautiful voice.

Mary:  But she went on with it too, you know.

Murray:  Yes, she had a radio program or something of her own.

Mary:  She sang with the … I don’t know if it was the Mendelssohn … one of the bigger choirs.

Murray:  Yes, oh she had a very ….

Gery:  Now Helen Large was on the trip that I was on that went up to Kennisis.

Murray:  Yes …

Gery:  Was that that same trip, do you think?

Murray:  Um, or did we have two.  Two trips up there.  One we went around and came across the Redstone …

Gery:  Yeah, that was the first trip.  I wasn’t on the trip to Redstone, I remember that.

Murray:  Yeah, well that was, um, ‘cause we went across the Redstone portage and we camped in a park on Maple Lake or ??? Beach or one of those three little, um, ….

Mary:  That was the last summer ….

Murray:  I think that was the last one …

Mary:  ….. very cold, frost.

Murray:  Yes.

Gery:  No, I wasn’t on that one.

Murray:  No, no.  And that was uh, and that was …. I think there were a couple of Wright girls …

Gery:  Betty and Jean [yes]

Mary:  Jean died about two or three years ago, cancer, miserable.

Gery:  Betty was on a trip that I was on and Jean, I think, was on one of the first trips, wasn’t she?

Mary:  Yeah.  Jean was very efficient and Betty was away with the birds most of the time when they were there.

Murray:  Well did they live on Warren Road too?

Mary:  I’m not sure.

Murray:  Because I connect them with a party at Warren Road.  Now maybe I’m …. the party was probably at your place but uh … afterwards, that fall.

Mary:  Maybe … that wasn’t the …. was it the first year you had the run at the farm?

Gery:  I don’t know.  With the snakes? 

Murray:  No, I was never ….

Gery:  You were at the farm?

Murray:  No

Gery:  No?  Because everybody came out.

Murray:  Unless, unless you had it because I couldn’t go because I was a Ridley(?)

Gery:  Yeah, maybe, could be.  It could have been the second year, the second year we were on.

Mary:  The dog ate my dinner.

Gery:  That’s right!  Your dog …

Mary:  Our dog, yeah.  Well then Ross Wilson came the next year.  Was he Ridley as well?

Murray:  He was Ridley as well, yes.

Mary:  Was he a contemporary of yours?

Murray:  No, he was a year … I guess a year behind me, one or two years.  And uh, it’s funny … I can remember … and he had a young brother who had bright red hair and I think his mother and father both had bright red hair … and he didn’t.  But uh, I don’t know why … I’ve never thought of him again, you know, until you mentioned him the other day.

Mary:  You don’t know what’s happened to him?

Murray:  I don’t know what’s happened to him at all.  I could find out.

Mary:  Now just before you came, Gery, we were talking about the terrific high liability insurance camps are carrying now and I don’t think we had any.  I don’t think we even thought of it.  But we didn’t get into any difficulties, did we?

Murray:  Nope.  I can’t think of any … the only thing I can remember was one girl cut her foot, stood on a clamshell and cut the bottom of her foot, but apart from that, uh ….. I remember hoping that I was gonna have to help her across one of the portages [laughter] but she managed to get across by herself.

Gery:  The only thing I remember was Mary Rogers getting those stomach cramps and we all thought she had appendicitis and we had to hurry home because of her.  I can remember her lolling in the middle of the boat, the canoe being paddled … ??? …yes, dangling her hand over the side.  But I don’t remember any accidents.  We lost a, um, pack overboard which floated and we got back again at one point.  I don’t remember where we were or which trip it was but I can remember ….

Mary:  But there were pretty clear limits, weren’t there?

Gery:  Oh, very, very ….

Mary:  …. to what you could do.

Gery:  Oh, yes …

Mary:   …. and they did them.

Gery:   That’s right.

Mary:  Now today I don’t think a lot of them would.

Gery:  No, no…

Murray:  And I think that, you know, we had … it was almost to my mind sort of very … not superly organized in that ‘no, you can’t do that because it’s not three minutes after six yet’ and so on, but okay, we go in and Gery, it’s your turn to cook the dinner and it’s your turn, Mary, to get the wood or whatever ….

Gery:  And somebody else to do the dishes …

Murray:  That’s right.  But I remember that my job was to … when we landed, was to set up the two tents, I think we had two tents.

Gery:  Yes, because Mary and Flora slept in the canoe… [that’s right] and you probably did too.

Murray:  Yeah, and then we had two, I think there were two tents and, uh, um …..

Gery:  Were there only two tents?

Mary:  No, there were only two, I think, the first year.

Gery:  Because I thought there was just two of us …

Murray:  One was bigger than the other.  There was one canvas tent that was not…. you know, was a little bigger than the other but they … you could string them.  They weren’t uh …

Gery:  Between two trees?

Murray:  Yeah.  I think that’s what … how we … but that was my first job was to get that organized for the night.

Gery:  That was where I learned that when you touched a wet tent, it would leak [laughter].  I can still feel the feeling of the cold wet and then the drip coming through where it was touched.

Mary:  I was thinking about water safety.  I think we had all kinds of rules about …. you couldn’t take a canoe out by yourself without somebody knowing …

Gery:  You could never swim, uh, without …. I can still see Flora perched up on the ….

Mary:  And you couldn’t go out far into the lake, and people did these things.  You know, like in those days, it was … you did the thing that was the thing to do.  It wasn’t that there was any discipline …

Gery:  Or maybe it made sense.

Murray:  Yes, I think this was it.  It made sense and I think that they were told, you know, you can’t go out, you shouldn’t swim alone and so on, and why, and that ‘why’ was the clincher really.  Because even if it’s ‘why’ because we don’t wanna have to fish you out of the lake, it still is that people shouldn’t, you know, swim alone any more than they scuba dive alone or they ski alone.  And uh, but there’s some people who still think they’re above the law and nothing’s ever gonna happen to me, but um, it can.

Mary:  Well that not swimming alone was so indoctrinated into me that I still insist somebody else is there.

Gery:  Oh yes, I never swim alone.

Mary:  I can’t get Dory ….

Gery:  I know, she’s just awful.  She would go swimming every morning …

Mary:  Every morning before anybody else got up …

Gery:  And in the freezing cold …

Mary:  But it was because it was so much ingrained into you rather than if you do this, you’ll get a whipping.

Gery:  Right, right.  Well, and the consequences are so dire when you really think of what could happen.  It surprises me that, you know, that people do still swim alone.

Murray:  Well, it uh, I used to have a house at the Summit and we didn’t use it very much so I’d go to the Summit and I’d tell the ski patrol ‘I’m going over via such-and-such a trail and I’ll be back here at four o’clock.’  And one day that one youngster was there and he said, uh, ‘Oh, why do you bother, you know, you can ski … I mean we all know how you can ski’ and so on.  I said  ‘Well that’s the reason that I want to be picked up.  I want to ski again.’  You know, anybody can hurt themselves, anybody can get into trouble in the water.  I think that this was drilled into us as youngsters and, um, I mean I still would not, as you say, would not swim by myself.  And uh, I even used to have an above-ground pool at my farm and I used to wonder, you know, about it.  I mean I could stand up in the thing but still, um, you know sometimes you’d go out at night after the kids were all in bed and uh, you know, I began to … it was, you know, you felt a little uncomfortable doing it.  It had been drilled into you that much.

Gery:  The other thing I remember, Mary, about safety … not water safety … but it was with smoking.  Somebody, and I don’t know who it was, on one of the trips, smoked.  And how you or Flora found out about it, or maybe they weren’t doing it on purpose … or hiding it on purpose … I don’t know.  But I can remember the talk that we had about that and again, the why’s of that and I thought you handled that very well.  I sort of sat back very smugly because I hadn’t started to smoke at that stage of the game.  But I can remember it quite clearly, um, what the consequences would be and the reason for it and the reason for the number of pails of water on the fire, and so on.

Mary:  We always said to the girls … they were all over 16 … if they could smoke at home, they could smoke at the table at Windy Pine, or in certain places we defined, and so some of them did.  And, huh, then the last day of the trip when we got back, one of the girls had her parents calling for her and she came up to …. ‘Now don’t say anything in front of my parents that I’ve been smoking.’  [laughter]

Gery:  Oh my.  This was on a trip?

Mary:  Yes, but you weren’t allowed to do it, I don’t think, unless you were on rock.  Well now, Murray, you stayed all summer.

Murray:  Yes, I’d disappear every now and then.

Mary:  You had a girl in ???

Murray:  Yes, but I also, uh, I remember I went … I came down to Toronto and I went fishing in the Beaver Valley with my father and I remember very distinctly him saying, ‘Would you like a beer?’  And I said ‘no’ and he said ‘Well that’s good because I didn’t wanna give you one anyway but when you want to, you come to me and I’ll show you how.’  [laughter]  And uh, and that was that summer and I remember being terribly grown up, uh, grown up about it.  But I think he thought that, you know, if I was gonna be off in the wilderness and in a wicked place like Minden and so on nearby, that I should at least be instructed on how to drink beer.

Gery:  How much … uh, how many days were there between trips?

Murray:  They came up on a Saturday and I think they got …. or Friday … or Saturday, got ready on Sunday, went out on Monday and came back on the Saturday.  Went home on the Sunday and then there was four days … or five days … and then the next ones came up.  And we started in … I often think what we could have done if we’d had a chain saw in those days with that beach [Yes].  I remember hauling stuff out of the beach and there were just these great big stumps and logs and so on.  As I say, if you’d had a … you couldn’t get a bulldozer in or anything of the sort and it was just a matter of cutting the things up but, uh …

Mary:  Well, I don’t think chain saws had come in, had they?

Murray:  No, I don’t think … no, I certainly …

Mary:  I think old Mr. Penrose used to come down and saw down with a big cross-cut.

Murray:  Yeah.  Yes, uh, and he had a buck saw and an axe, I think, and we tried to clear off some of that …. how much of that beach did you get cleared off?

Mary:  Huh, it never got completely cleared.  There’s still driftwood up there.

Murray:  Is there..

Mary:  Yes.  But one way that it got cleared was it became a precious commodity.

Murray:  Oh, the wood?

Mary:  The wood, driftwood.  You know, people began using it in florist stores and so on and I know a girl from California came up and she packed big cartons to take home to California.  We got ????

Gery:  I have a big carton in my cellar still of driftwood from Windy Pine, yeah.

Mary:  Oh we have some around here.  There’s a piece up there, there’s a piece over there.

Gery:  Flora used to take it down … my Jimmy was in her kindergarten class and he polished and waxed and I still have the beautiful piece of driftwood.  She made one for each child.

Mary:  So what were the highlights?  What was the highlight of the summer?

Gery:  I think the actual paddling was what appealed to me most.  The being in the canoe and being in the stern, I felt terribly important because I was, a lot of the time, allowed to stern paddle.  But I liked to be on the water, that uh, the feeling of being on the water … still do.  Love going in a boat, any kind of boat really.

Mary:  Now did we take health precautions at all?  Sunburn?

Gery:  Sunburn.  Mosquito stuff.  What’s that yellow, um, awful stuff we used to use …

Mary:  Citronella

Gery:  Yes, citronella.  And uh, and the water being purified.  You had a little first aid kit, I believe.

Mary:  I’m sure we did.  And I’m sure we had what was in it too…. a list.

Gery:  That’s right, pasted on the back of the tin box, right.  And it was waterproof, I think somehow.  Seems to me it was in something to keep it …

Murray:  But Haliburton was relatively wild [very!] in those days.  I mean, uh, there was no problem finding a place to camp at night.  It, um, I mean that whole beach at Kennisis … I remember one year there was a Onondaga trip down that went onto the beach and the only thing I can remember is that they got a bunch of … they must have spilt some honey in a pack because a bunch of bees got in there and we saw running down with a pack, two of them with a pack between them, and running into the lake.  And we asked them later on what they were doing and the thing was full of bees when they’d gone in to get things.  But uh … I felt that the, um, for my part, the learning of, uh … what I learned on those canoe trips about how to do this and how to do that and the way canoe trips could be done was very useful later on when I, uh, used to fight with Mr. Brockwell at Onondaga and then taking my uh, you know, my family on tripping or just teaching them how to paddle and how to canoe.

Mary:  See all those lakes, except the ones right on the highway, were deserted.  There may have been one cabin, there was a lumber mill on Kennesis where we got ice … not on your trip … later on.  But it was real wilderness and you didn’t meet many on your trips.

Gery:  We practically never met another … wherever we were headed for a camp site … there was never anybody there.  It was always …

Murray:  Oh no, you didn’t have to worry whether somebody was gonna be there.  Now, um, one trip we came down through Hall’s Lake.  I remember you could drive into Hall’s Lake at that stage and I remember coming across … now whoever cut their foot … we came across the Hall’s Lake portage and I carried the first canoe across and we got the storekeeper.  And I told him, uh, you know, what had happened and he went back and got the girl in the car.

Mary:  There was a store there and there was a post office.

Murray:  Right.  And then he took her into the doctor in Carnarvon, I think it was, and they bound up her foot and brought her back.  You know, it was ….  But, as I say, I felt very strongly that the …. how to organize and all the things that you would never learn … I was gonna say in a boys’ camp … because, um, they weren’t natural things to do.  You know, and I don’t suppose that 20 years later, most of the boys’ camps were using dehydrated food or ….

Mary:  No.  They use that frozen stuff.

Murray:  Yeah, that freeze-dried now…

Mary:  Freeze-dried, but they tell me it’s going out.  They’re going back to ????.  One more thing.  Do you remember at all anything about nature or being taught or nature being pointed out.

Gery:  There was a bear on one trip.

Mary:  That’s right.

Gery:  A bear.  I don’t know if you were on that trip or not, I don’t think so.

Murray:  No, I wasn’t on that trip, no.

Gery: But um, it picked it’s way between the bodies in the sleeping bags …

Murray:  Oh no!

Gery:  [laughter]  It was south, when we went south near the falls.  I don’t think I do remember anything about that.

Mary:  Well I remember Lou diverting us from its young.  We came across this loon … flapping its wings and carrying on and that was to divert … and I think we saw deer but I’m not sure.  But you don’t remember any sitting down and saying this is a white pine and this is a red pine.

Gery:  No, no.

Murray:  I don’t think, uh, I might not remember because that was sort of almost second nature to me because, at that point, we’d planted at least 170,000 trees [laughter] and trees were sort of almost part of our life at that stage.

Gery:  Now do you remember us being told things like this and we’re just not remembering?

Mary:  No.  Flora would have.  I wouldn’t have much … I certainly would have told you about the loon, that’s probably why I remember it.  But she was so keen on nature.  You probably absorbed it without really knowing.

Gery:  I think very likely …. ??? you’d picked it for you ???

Mary:  You’re not allowed to now, you know.

Gery:  Really?  Really.  I can remember the first job at arriving at a site was going and collecting wood.  We all had to go and each person … I think I’m right … we all to bring up some wood, dry wood.  If it was raining, we had to find dry wood.

Mary:  And then you had to get yourselves clean …

Gery:  We were responsible for our own selves, that’s right.  But I can’t remember how the jobs were allotted.  I know that we each knew what we were supposed to be doing.  Was that done before we left?

Mary:  I think so.

Gery:  Monday night, so-and-so, Tuesday night, so-and-so?

Murray:  Yes I think the timetable was so that everybody had ….

Gery:  I know the menus were, I always remember things about food, but …

Mary:  You liked everything but the pork and beans which you hadn’t liked anyhow.

Gery:  Never did, no.

Mary:  And the food was properly cooked usually.  The Jello didn’t always set.

Gery:  Succotash I remember.

Mary:  I didn’t like it.

Gery:  And s’Mores.  And I always thought that was yours and Flora’s invention.  It was quite a few years later that I came across it in a cookbook and I was quite surprised.  And I thought, well Mary and Flora have been telling people about their s’Mores.  But I gather that was a camp favourite from away back. 

Mary:  I don’t know where we ran into them.  I think it was from the States, at a camping conference.

Murray:  Was that the, uh, um, on the biscuit… graham cracker and chocolate and marshmallow.

Mary:  And you know still, well out at Caledon, when the kids come, that is sometimes what we make for dessert.

Gery:  Do you?  [Mhm]  I must do that with kids ‘cause they’re good.  I can remember that.  I mean you had to get them just so when you squashed them together, the marshmallow would spread all over and melt the chocolate.

Mary:  That was a long, long time ago.  [Mhm, mhm]  So shall we stop and have a little drink?  [Alright]

Mary:  You remember that my dog was on those trips.

Gery:  Very well.  I remember ???

Murray:  A little Boston Bull, right.

Gery:  And he used to leap into the canoe and then he never moved until we got to about five or six feet from shore, then he would leave.

Mary:  I think so.

Murray:  Yes, he was always very good but being so little, he didn’t ruffle the thing if he didn’t, uh, get up and try to bite a cactus, or at least a cattail.

Mary:  And what did he do at mealtime?  Was he difficult?

Gery:  No, don’t remember him at mealtime.  Too busy eating.  I can remember throwing sticks for him, incessantly.  He would just ….

Murray:  Everybody had to carry their own clothes and toothbrush and so on and, oh yeah, we had a certain amount of food and so on, but um, I remember you saying that you would carry the dog’s dinners.

Gery:  What did the dog eat?

Murray:  Oh, he had his regular little … I don’t know whether it was dry food or whether it was …

Gery:  We couldn’t have carried tins for the dog when we weren’t allowed any tins for us!  [laughter]

Murray:  Well, you’d be surprised.

Mary:  And he gave a great deal of cheer to the conversation.

Murray:  Oh yes.  Oh yeah, he, uh …. I must say that I’ve never been on a canoe trip with a dog before but he didn’t get into any trouble. 

Mary:  Porcupines …

Murray:  Yeah, he didn’t get into any porkies or any skunks or that sort.  Because they’re the kind that’ll take on anybody if they met one.

Mary:  …. sure we got the dog in.

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